Habitual 3bettors at uNL and how to deal with them?
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Habitual 3bettors at uNL and how to deal with them?
Ok, all three of these hands are against players who 3bet more than 10% of the time (which I have as high, esp as uNL) over at least 100 hands.
Each of these hands I have taken a different line, and yet I lost in every one of them. What am I doing wrong, and what should I be doing?
***** Hand History for Game 7524419240 *****
$50 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 09, 15:06:57 ET 2008
Table Table 126543 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: MuckingQuads ( $72.59 USD )
Seat 2: AlekseySt ( $76.18 USD )
Seat 3: pp_mabla ( $60.43 USD )
Seat 4: scary_noob ( $50 USD )
Seat 5: PSV_GW_LU ( $77.60 USD )
Seat 6: Hengzt1989 ( $60.29 USD )
AlekseySt posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
pp_mabla posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MuckingQuads [ Qh Ks ]
scary_noob folds
PSV_GW_LU folds
Hengzt1989 folds
MuckingQuads raises [$2 USD]
AlekseySt folds
pp_mabla raises [$6.50 USD]
MuckingQuads calls [$5 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, 7c, 5h ]
pp_mabla bets [$7 USD]
MuckingQuads raises [$14 USD]
pp_mabla is all-In [$46.43 USD]
MuckingQuads folds
pp_mabla does not show cards.
pp_mabla wins $79.57 USD
***** Hand History for Game 7524387656 *****
$50 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 09, 14:58:48 ET 2008
Table Table 126456 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: MuckingQuads ( $50.75 USD )
Seat 2: Predator_Ger ( $88.64 USD )
Seat 3: c11_10_08t ( $52.75 USD )
Seat 4: Loranger3333 ( $67.69 USD )
Seat 5: arpinoSK ( $50 USD )
Seat 6: Mika_111_ ( $50 USD )
Predator_Ger posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
c11_10_08t posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MuckingQuads [ Qs Ad ]
Loranger3333 folds
Mika_111_ folds
MuckingQuads raises [$2 USD]
Predator_Ger raises [$6.75 USD]
c11_10_08t folds
MuckingQuads calls [$5 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 2h, 5d ]
Predator_Ger bets [$10 USD]
MuckingQuads calls [$10 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9s ]
Predator_Ger bets [$34 USD]
MuckingQuads folds
Predator_Ger does not show cards.
Predator_Ger wins $66.78 USD
***** Hand History for Game 7524002390 *****
$50 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 09, 12:53:23 ET 2008
Table Table 129364 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 3: redfox1982 ( $53.84 USD )
Seat 4: smiddy4701 ( $54.82 USD )
Seat 5: nicelake ( $75.25 USD )
Seat 2: MuckingQuads ( $62.50 USD )
Seat 6: Dima934 ( $50 USD )
Seat 1: ypypy ( $50 USD )
nicelake posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
Dima934 posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MuckingQuads [ Kh As ]
MuckingQuads raises [$2 USD]
redfox1982 raises [$6.50 USD]
smiddy4701 folds
nicelake folds
Dima934 folds
MuckingQuads raises [$13 USD]
redfox1982 is all-In [$47.34 USD]
MuckingQuads folds
redfox1982 does not show cards.
redfox1982 wins $69.59 USD
***** Hand History for Game 7524305411 *****
$50 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 09, 14:37:18 ET 2008
Table Table 125649 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: hgvrick ( $101.38 USD )
Seat 2: MuckingQuads ( $57.15 USD )
Seat 3: JulFRA63 ( $101.03 USD )
Seat 4: ae_pest ( $50 USD )
Seat 5: Mika_111_ ( $63.12 USD )
Seat 6: Kwagiulth ( $76.42 USD )
Mika_111_ posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
Kwagiulth posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MuckingQuads [ Jc Jh ]
hgvrick calls [$0.50 USD]
MuckingQuads raises [$2.50 USD]
JulFRA63 folds
ae_pest raises [$9 USD]
Mika_111_ folds
Kwagiulth folds
hgvrick folds
MuckingQuads is all-In [$54.65 USD]
ae_pest is all-In [$41 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, Td, 6c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qs ]
** Dealing River ** [ 9d ]
ae_pest shows [ Kh, Kc ]a pair of Kings.
MuckingQuads shows [ Jc, Jh ]a pair of Jacks.
MuckingQuads wins $7.15 USD from the side pot 1 with a pair of Jacks.
ae_pest wins $98.25 USD from the main pot with a pair of Kings.
Each of these hands I have taken a different line, and yet I lost in every one of them. What am I doing wrong, and what should I be doing?
***** Hand History for Game 7524419240 *****
$50 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 09, 15:06:57 ET 2008
Table Table 126543 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: MuckingQuads ( $72.59 USD )
Seat 2: AlekseySt ( $76.18 USD )
Seat 3: pp_mabla ( $60.43 USD )
Seat 4: scary_noob ( $50 USD )
Seat 5: PSV_GW_LU ( $77.60 USD )
Seat 6: Hengzt1989 ( $60.29 USD )
AlekseySt posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
pp_mabla posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MuckingQuads [ Qh Ks ]
scary_noob folds
PSV_GW_LU folds
Hengzt1989 folds
MuckingQuads raises [$2 USD]
AlekseySt folds
pp_mabla raises [$6.50 USD]
MuckingQuads calls [$5 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, 7c, 5h ]
pp_mabla bets [$7 USD]
MuckingQuads raises [$14 USD]
pp_mabla is all-In [$46.43 USD]
MuckingQuads folds
pp_mabla does not show cards.
pp_mabla wins $79.57 USD
***** Hand History for Game 7524387656 *****
$50 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 09, 14:58:48 ET 2008
Table Table 126456 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: MuckingQuads ( $50.75 USD )
Seat 2: Predator_Ger ( $88.64 USD )
Seat 3: c11_10_08t ( $52.75 USD )
Seat 4: Loranger3333 ( $67.69 USD )
Seat 5: arpinoSK ( $50 USD )
Seat 6: Mika_111_ ( $50 USD )
Predator_Ger posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
c11_10_08t posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MuckingQuads [ Qs Ad ]
Loranger3333 folds
Mika_111_ folds
MuckingQuads raises [$2 USD]
Predator_Ger raises [$6.75 USD]
c11_10_08t folds
MuckingQuads calls [$5 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 2h, 5d ]
Predator_Ger bets [$10 USD]
MuckingQuads calls [$10 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9s ]
Predator_Ger bets [$34 USD]
MuckingQuads folds
Predator_Ger does not show cards.
Predator_Ger wins $66.78 USD
***** Hand History for Game 7524002390 *****
$50 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 09, 12:53:23 ET 2008
Table Table 129364 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 3: redfox1982 ( $53.84 USD )
Seat 4: smiddy4701 ( $54.82 USD )
Seat 5: nicelake ( $75.25 USD )
Seat 2: MuckingQuads ( $62.50 USD )
Seat 6: Dima934 ( $50 USD )
Seat 1: ypypy ( $50 USD )
nicelake posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
Dima934 posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MuckingQuads [ Kh As ]
MuckingQuads raises [$2 USD]
redfox1982 raises [$6.50 USD]
smiddy4701 folds
nicelake folds
Dima934 folds
MuckingQuads raises [$13 USD]
redfox1982 is all-In [$47.34 USD]
MuckingQuads folds
redfox1982 does not show cards.
redfox1982 wins $69.59 USD
***** Hand History for Game 7524305411 *****
$50 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 09, 14:37:18 ET 2008
Table Table 125649 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: hgvrick ( $101.38 USD )
Seat 2: MuckingQuads ( $57.15 USD )
Seat 3: JulFRA63 ( $101.03 USD )
Seat 4: ae_pest ( $50 USD )
Seat 5: Mika_111_ ( $63.12 USD )
Seat 6: Kwagiulth ( $76.42 USD )
Mika_111_ posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
Kwagiulth posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MuckingQuads [ Jc Jh ]
hgvrick calls [$0.50 USD]
MuckingQuads raises [$2.50 USD]
JulFRA63 folds
ae_pest raises [$9 USD]
Mika_111_ folds
Kwagiulth folds
hgvrick folds
MuckingQuads is all-In [$54.65 USD]
ae_pest is all-In [$41 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, Td, 6c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qs ]
** Dealing River ** [ 9d ]
ae_pest shows [ Kh, Kc ]a pair of Kings.
MuckingQuads shows [ Jc, Jh ]a pair of Jacks.
MuckingQuads wins $7.15 USD from the side pot 1 with a pair of Jacks.
ae_pest wins $98.25 USD from the main pot with a pair of Kings.
Sneds- Posts : 216
Join date : 2008-10-10
Re: Habitual 3bettors at uNL and how to deal with them?
10% def is really high. I dunno if PT3 has it, but HM has a stat to see how often they 3bet steal attempts from the blinds. That gives you an idea of how often they're doing it against LP raises, but also how often they're doing it against EP opens when compared to the overall 3bet stat. Where you're opening from is massively important in 3bet wars.
I dont think you're doing anything wrong really, you just happened to lose these hands. Couple are prob suboptimal, but def not bad by any means.
Hand 1 - I think this would be ok if hes v.straightforward and is never shipping air here. I actually think this would work pretty well against me. If hes 3betting about 12%, which seems reasonable if hes 3betting 10% overall, he'll only have an overpair or trips ~30% of the time here. You're laying 14 to win 21 and therefore only need him to fold 40% of the time. My initial reaction was that I hated it, but i kinda think it would work quite well. Hes gonna ship 99-AA, and would need to be defending another 40% of air hands to stop you instaprofiting. If your villain never continues with naked overcards, this is insanely good, even more so if he has a really polarised 3betting range [like JJ+, AQ+, then loads of raggy shit]. I ran those calcs for (99+, AJs+, some raggy shit) which gives him more combos of overpairs.
Hand 2 - I dont mind the float at all, but only because you have the Ad, otherwise I think it'd be overextension. Just bear in mind that in these spots you have a really weak range already and are weakening it further by floating overcards. This is especially true if you 4bet pre or raise the flop with all your overpairs. Against v.good, aware opponents this would be bad.
Hand 3 - Call the shove or dont 4bet pre. You need about 35% equity to call the shove, and even against (QQ+, AK), AKo has nearly 39%.
Hand 4 - Im not 100% sold on this, because you raised utg+1. If you opened CO and got 3bet by the button, this would be great, and probably standard for me. The fact that you have a much tighter range from utg+1 makes it not quite so good. It depends on your opponent to a certain degree, and this probably cant ever be too horrible.
I dont think you're doing anything wrong really, you just happened to lose these hands. Couple are prob suboptimal, but def not bad by any means.
Hand 1 - I think this would be ok if hes v.straightforward and is never shipping air here. I actually think this would work pretty well against me. If hes 3betting about 12%, which seems reasonable if hes 3betting 10% overall, he'll only have an overpair or trips ~30% of the time here. You're laying 14 to win 21 and therefore only need him to fold 40% of the time. My initial reaction was that I hated it, but i kinda think it would work quite well. Hes gonna ship 99-AA, and would need to be defending another 40% of air hands to stop you instaprofiting. If your villain never continues with naked overcards, this is insanely good, even more so if he has a really polarised 3betting range [like JJ+, AQ+, then loads of raggy shit]. I ran those calcs for (99+, AJs+, some raggy shit) which gives him more combos of overpairs.
Hand 2 - I dont mind the float at all, but only because you have the Ad, otherwise I think it'd be overextension. Just bear in mind that in these spots you have a really weak range already and are weakening it further by floating overcards. This is especially true if you 4bet pre or raise the flop with all your overpairs. Against v.good, aware opponents this would be bad.
Hand 3 - Call the shove or dont 4bet pre. You need about 35% equity to call the shove, and even against (QQ+, AK), AKo has nearly 39%.
Hand 4 - Im not 100% sold on this, because you raised utg+1. If you opened CO and got 3bet by the button, this would be great, and probably standard for me. The fact that you have a much tighter range from utg+1 makes it not quite so good. It depends on your opponent to a certain degree, and this probably cant ever be too horrible.
Luke- Posts : 148
Join date : 2008-10-10
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